Does anybody feel they miss out on Skill Development while Running the Read And React?

Discussion in 'About Offense' started by James LaMacchia, May 18, 2013.

  1. I know this question has been addressed in the past, but do any of you feel that you miss out on Skill Development while running the read and React?

    For example, Ball-Handling drills (Two ball, stop and go moves, etc....)

    Rebounding Drills?

    Post development?

    How much time do you dedicate to your man to man shell drilling and Transition game, etc... I had a conversation with another Varsity coach who was a mentor to me and first introduced this offense to me.

    He feels he cannot go all in because it takes a ton of time and takes away from the things i have listed above, loves it but feels there is not enough screening in it.

    Just somethings i wanted to throw out there, to have a good conversation on this. Would love to hear some responses.

  2. Coach See New Member

    I worry about the same thing sometimes... I tried to juggle the two last year - really tried to develop player individual skills while running the offense and I failed. Badly. But I think this year I am going to use the summer to work on implementing team offense and then use more read and react mini drills to work on post moves and wing moves and then defense at the same time.

    For post moves, I am going to use the post screen and roll drill that Rick has on Youtube and every post move will be done out of that framework.

    Rebounding I will teach exclusively - and press break... but I am hoping the summer will allow me to get enough players familiar with the system that the offense will compliment everything else.
  3. That is what my game plan is as well, we are starting our open Gyms this week for 2 hour per session twice a week. I think for the first hour, i will do all Read and React Drills and for the second hour split in half 30 minutes for skill work and 3o for controlled scrimmaging.
  4. CoachMcLellan Active Member

    I am not a 90-10 guy, as Rick preaches. I'm also not naïve enough to think that the Read and React provides teaching opportunities for every fundamental. However, I do believe that with some adjustments in our thinking as coaches, and what we stress within the Reaction Drills we can get reps with our offense and teach critical skills.

    For instance a quick list of fundamentals that I feel many of the player's on my new provincial team are lacking include; front pivots, reverse pivots, 1,2 stop, stepping to meet the pass and shorten the pass, showing a target, clip the hip on a rip and go, escape dribbles, shot form, basic dribble moves, outside hand & foot passing [primarily non-dominant], etc

    However, we can easily teach all these skills within the Reaction Drills. We must teach the motion of the drill [ex. 3 Player Pass & Cut with Close-Outs]; and then shift our instruction to ensuring the player's use their outside hand and foot to pass, that all player's remain athletic and showing a target, that we throw our hands back and use short choppy steps to close out at the offensive player's top shoulder.

    We teach our perimeter player's to use basic post moves like a spin, drop step, up and under, etc from the 3 Player Pass and Cut. We explain that when player's jam your cut, you must place your outside leg between the defenders feet and leg whip to post. We send our Laker Cutter through, and then perform a post move.

    We teach dribble moves and rip and goes in circle movement drills. We even do two ball dribbling as a circle movement drill, where the player drives with both balls either right or left around a cone. They make the pass to their teammate using appropriate outside hand, outside foot skills, and then gather and shoot the second ball themselves.

    We teach rebounding technique, and then incorporate it into a transition drill, where our rebounder pivots outside - takes an escape dribble and pitches ahead; at which time we run our 5 v. 0 Pass and Cut, or 5 v 0 bounce off, etc.

    I think with some creativity we can get a large amount of our offensive fundamentals in within the Reaction Drills; the issue is when we as coaches perform the Reaction Drills we are so hung up on the movement of players - ie. are they passing and cutting, we fail to teach to fundamentals associated with good passing, cutting, and receiving.

    Now with all that said, I have a series of drills that I refer to as my ED's [Every Day's] that aren't necessarily Reaction Drills.
    Tom7 and plavitch like this.
  5. mvcbruce Active Member

    Could we see these ED's?

  6. That is great stuff, do you mind sharing the EDs?
  7. CoachMcLellan Active Member

    I'll try and get the EDs done up on Fastdraw
    Coach Dennis and CoachDC like this.
  8. Coach Dennis Moderator

    I agree with Coach Mc Lellan, one drill can be modified slightly to accommodate different goals in terms of player development. What is most important here is the emphasis of the coach, that determines the goal.

    Furthermore, instead of doing all separate drills, with not much cohesion between them, you will collapse time-frames: maintaining one or multiple skills while enhancing new ones. I believe ultimately this will lead to a better transfer from practice to games.
  9. CoachClow Member

  10. CoachMcLellan Active Member

    I'm going to apologize, I haven't had the time to Fastdraw my EDs yet, but am hoping to do so this weekend. However, I believe that the Read and React can make it difficult for the coach to develop player skills - if the coach is more concerned with the movements, and less committed to his or her skill development.

    I found it productive to think of all the skills that a player needs to be able to accomplish - both offensively and defensively - and really think about each of them in terms of where they fit within my offense and team defense.

    Ex: What foot are you teaching kids to catch and pivot on when filling spots. There is material to support, outside foot, inside foot, and even dominant foot.

    As a coach you need to decide, which of these versions of a similar skill you want to teach. Does it matter to you, or will you simply teach all three and allow the player's to determine which one they are most comfortable with. But once you've decided, you need to look at your Reaction Drills and identify drills that you currently do that require that skill. And then during that skill emphasize the establishment of a pivot foot [ex].

    For me, I have my list of offensive skills and have worked to prioritize them; ie. determine at which point of the season I will emphasize each skill in each drill. I want to start with the highest priority on my list and stress that in the reaction drill, once player's have accomplished that skill, I move to the next priority that can be taught in the same drill. And this becomes my new point of emphasis. And while I'll occasionally have to remind players of old skills, I can start to shift my focus.

    As you can expect some of the skills are easier to transition and take less time for players to develop, so you can move faster through them.

    You can't teach an offense that requires skill A, B, and C to be successful and never take the time to teach the players how to perform the skill. If you do overlook skill development in your practice and reaction drills, you're simply teaching kids where to go and when to go, and not how to be successful when they get there.
    Coach Dennis likes this.
  11. plavitch Active Member

    I think everyone should read this article on the importance of fundamentals. Another good read is here. A key takeaway from the second article is this, "Often the individual skills that coaches teach and the individual skills that players actually use in games are two separate sets of skills." So maybe some of the things we think are "fundamental" really aren't all that necessary to teach.

    Two-ball dribbling? Yeah, I do it some, but would we better off having our players working on their dribbling in some kind of 1v1 or 2v2 game? Do we just do those kinds of things automatically because that's the way we were coached and the big-name college coaches do it in their workouts? With every passing year I believe it is more and more important to develop skills in context rather than in isolation.

    Dan Abrahams wrote this on Twitter this morning, "Where coaches can go wrong is they separate the tactical, technical, physical & mental sides. They are inextricably linked - they combine!"
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  12. CoachMcLellan Active Member

    I agree with the majority of what Plavitch is saying. I feel sometimes we as coaches try and get 'too cute' with our practice drills. I believe that our drills need to mirror the skills required to be successful within our offenses and our defenses. So while there is great value in using 2 ball dribbling to help develop the non-dominant hand, and it's nice to challenge our players with new tasks, it is equally important to have drills that develop game specific skills.

    For example, we will be running a 5 out modified Read and React team this year. As such we will be incorporating, pass and cut, dribble hand-offs, laker cuts off a pass cut with a leg whip, circle motion, post slides from the pass cut and leg whip. We know where our scoring opportunities lie, and the shots and dribble moves that are necessary to get to these spots and then be successful.

    So it is essential that teach kids to leg whip on their sit and seal. It is essential that we teach kids to drive, jump stop, and pitch the ball with their outside hand. It is essential that we teach the players how to pull up off a hand-off, it is essential that we teach the kids to flip their hips on a north south drive that gets angled off - and in turn play as a post.

    We as coaches need to look at what we do, and what it will take for our kids to be successful in those systems and teach those skills directly.
  13. plavitch Active Member

    I didn't mean to only teach the skills needed in your offense. As an extreme, a Flex coach would only teach post moves off a baseline cut and jump shots off a down screen. That may make his players successful but it probably won't make them significantly better. Of course a motion/R&R offense needs a wide variety of skills so working on those will tend to develop improved players.

    What I was trying to say is that, for example, instead of working on dribble moves against a cone/chair, players should develop them in 1v1 games. There is a big difference between attacking a cone and making a pre-planned move and having to make a reactive move against a defender. I believe you can teach in isolation but you should practice in context. I can tell a player that their crossover dribble is not good enough when she makes that move on a cone, but she may not believe me until she gets her pocket picked every time by a defender. You should put constraints on the defender at first to make it easier for the offense, but as the offense improves you should make the game move even.
  14. Tom7 Administrator

    Sure, spending time as a token defender while a teammate gets a move down isn't extraordinarily skill building for the token defender, but it is conditioning if it is set up to be that way, and conditioning that's more productive than running lines.

    When I think of the hours and hours and hours of practice time I spent as a player running lines or doing other things that, while they made me better conditioned, really didn't make me a better player -- at least not as much as better thought out drills could have.
  15. plavitch Active Member

    I was thinking about this topic again this morning and concluded that while teaching the R&R reactions takes time in practice, we gain that time back by not spending time working on 5v0 patterns or sets, and by not doing defensive shell drill (collapsing time frames by running our offense against our defense).

    So I think the trade-off is at least even and we probably even gain time when you consider the amount of shooting we get done in our reaction drills. Our practices are probably 60/40 tilted toward offense, maybe a little more, because I believe that learning to manipulate the ball (fine motor skills) takes more time than learning to play defense (gross motor skills). Except for shooting, though, we are almost always working offense and defense together.
  16. CodyJ Member

    The RRO drills are very assist centric, i.e. all of the scores would have an assist accredited on the score sheet. There isn't much time spent on how to score from the different spots. If the player receives the pass at the short corner but the player cutting isn't open, then what? Try to get an assist another way? I don't think that's very realistic. It's still too early to tell how effective it is, but here is what I am trying:

    Pass & Cut
    How to score from the Short Corner - rip it low, rip it high, reverse pivot and jump shot
    Read Line
    How to score from the Mid Post - drop step, up and under, crab dribble and crab dribble reverse
    Post Pass and Cut
    How to score from the High Post - reverse pivot pump and drive, reverse pivot pull up
    Dribble At
    How to score from the 5 Out Spots - Triple Threat Series (most of these drills I got from Ed Schillings DVD)
    Circle Movement
    Tired Free Throws and 2 Ball Dribbling Drills
    Post Slides
    Commando Series (dribbling drills)

    I use Wooden's Eight Laws of Learning. Explaniation (Draw it up on the whiteboard or use chess pieces), Demonstration (I'll show them the motions), Imitation (Have one of the players demonstrate) and Repition X 5 (drill, drill, drill...) We spend 5 - 6 minutes on each section.

    I've divided those up between two practices with some transition drills added in. (sneaky way to get in some conditioning and they're getting their conditioning in with a basketball in their hands)

    Based on advice received on this forum, I'm teaching the tall kids and the short kids all the same. They haven't hit their growth spurt yet.

    First two practices I'm focusing on what to do. Then I'm going to teach it again, focusing on how to do it.

    Downside is we won't get to defensive rebounding, offensive rebounding or the start of defense until practice 5.
  17. plavitch Active Member

    It has long been my position that the Better Basketball method of teaching the RRO ignores the person with the ball (among other problems). I think you are right to spend time working on various scoring moves. The Ed Schilling DVD is nice. I also like one by Dave Smart (which I can't find at this moment or I would tell you the title). Vance Walberg and other Dribble Drive coaches have a lot of good stuff on attacking the rim as well.

    Definitely have everyone doing everything. I don't know that you have to neglect rebounding or defense when you start, though. If you do shooting drills, every shot is a potential chance to rebound. Working on triple-threat moves is a chance to work on defense. That's how I see it, anyway.
  18. Coach-Farrugia New Member

    I coach U14s (In Australia which is around 11-13 year olds) and I incorporate all the things you have said in my drills. I run Pass N Cut (Read-Line with that obviously), Circle Movement, Dribble At (Or known as Speed Dribble) Post Passing and Post Reactions.

    Before we start the reaction drills we always do dribbling work before hand.

    I strongly believe in what Rick said about enhancing the reaction drill to progress your players. Example, Pass N Cut we now shot fake, or jab step ect. Make the drills more challenging for your players to progress them. If you want to be a good Rebounding team, then be creative with the drills, and get your kids to rebound. If the drill lasts longer then it's fine.

    Usually after doing Layer 1 - we are straight into Shell Drill working on our cuts, and defending the cuts. The same with Layer 2 (Circle Movement I place this at).

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