R&R Evolution

Discussion in 'About Offense' started by ST1, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. ST1 Member

    Hi all, Hopefully the topic is not misleading...

    After pass and cut & circle movement has been fully installed into your team. The R&R leaves a great mark on your team. Where should one focus next? i know we must move layer by layer. but what layer or level has had the biggest positive effect on your team now that you coached the offense in its entirety?

  2. Tom7 Administrator

    Like many teams, we teach pass and cut 5-out initially because of the its simplicity and the habits it instills.

    Next, I like to teach post passing. There are just some players who are not comfortable outside the arc. They feel like there is nothing they can contribute out there except spacing, and they want more involvement.
  3. ST1 Member

    Post pass and cut is already in! I coach that with the p&c on day one!
    Just so the players know. Every pass there has to be a cut!

    I think the next chapter to look into will be SCREENS?!?
  4. CoachMcLellan Active Member

    I go from pass & cut into our hand-off series, which we run in place of the speed dribble. In our hand-off series, we also focus on the readline, if a defender crosses the readline while trying to deny the hand-off the offensive player goes backdoor. Therefore, this hand-off series can be easily integrated into our RR without any hesitation.

    Our hand-off series involves a simple hand-off, hand-off readline, hand-off into a step back with a pass back into a basket cut, a fake hand-off, a hand-off into a screen roll, hand-off into a pass and cut in the direction of the dribble. It helps us reverse the floor against zones, and the speed dribble offers very little at the higher skill level.
  5. coachgrd Member

    Hi guys. With my 7th grade boys this year, all we concentrated on was p & c from a 5 out and attacking the basket. I think I'll always run R & R from a 5-out.

    Here's a question for you guys: Should I bother teaching post pass & cut if I never have a guy posting up? Or do you encourage your players to post up after they pass & cut?
  6. ST1 Member

    Coach GRD, if you got someone who can Remotely play offense with his back to the hoop, then its a great idea. i post up often dispite me not having any post moves. but i supply many Laker cuts and often fake the laker cut pass and kick it out to our 3 pointer shooter. these moves look very good :) plus it changes things up, give opponents something else to focus on...
  7. coachgrd Member

    Thanks ST1.

    I think that laker cut is so effective at my level (ms boys) because so many kids just turn and watch the pass, losing sight of the cutter.
  8. CoachN New Member

    with 6-7th grade rec boys this winter, I taught layers 1-3. This spring, i've got a higher skill team of mostly 6th with some 7th graders and I've included layer 4. I think there's a HUGE benefit in teaching these 4 layers in order at this age. What kids most need to learn is passing and moving without the ball. What they most want to do is dribble. Instilling the habits of layers 1&2 before I allow them to dribble anywhere completely changes the way they play basketball.

    That being said, if you've taught L1&4, teach L2. You need to get them attacking from inside out to be effective overall. Even if you don't have a true, back-to-the-basket post player, attacking with LCuts and kicking out to perimeter shooters in rhythm will greatly multiply the dimensionality of your attack. At these young ages, these layers will easily overload a defense's ability to stop you.
  9. ST1 Member

    Next Topic.

    Have you given Specific individual instructions that superceeds the usual R&R rules and have you had a positive outcome because of it?

    These weekend we played a team that we lost to last year and they played the same 2-3 zone. When haven't had any Zone offense practice but we managed to smash them with traditional R&R and having someone in the high post and also a flash to the high post. Biggest difference this year is that was have MUCH more skilled players..

    Even tho we were proficient in pass and cut, circle move. Post Passing & Skip passing the offense looked a little flat... (We could effectively break them down. without setting any screens so we didn't set any (Video Footage is available)

    Can anyone relate?
  10. coachgrd Member

    ST1...After reading your post, I could not help but think of Torbetts's line from one of the videos where he says something like "It doesn't matter what you're running, if you can't score, you're gonna struggle." You obviously have some kids this year who can score, which always makes life a little easier.:)
  11. ST1 Member

    I have just gotten a VERY strong post player and he refuses to acknowledge that anything good can come from a Laker cut high /low ,he under stand that we could get a easy pass "but that doesn't happen 90% of the time"

    "How am i suppose to do a strong move when there are people cutting in my way all the time/bringing their defense on me?.....

    My Instructions to my players when feeding this guy is "Just relocate...." It solves the intimidate problem but who is missing the bigger picture?

    Please Advise
  12. Paul Member

    The cutter should not cut right off the post player, rather they should maintain some separation to avoid this issue. If the post is in the mid post, the cutter should touch the high post or short corner spot on their cut.

    If this does happen then the cutter should be open for an easy bucket.
  13. ST1 Member

    We know how to laker cut high and low, so i dont understand this guys problem :/
  14. Coach Dennis Moderator

    I faced the same question with my team and what I tried to teach them is that they have to read the post player. You know, like the "pass pass hold" sequence hold back your cut for just a second. Read the post player, if he moves low, cut high (a real banana cut) and get at the rebound. Similar if he moves high, cut low, even go as far as going out of bounds when needed. Make sure you enter the court again on the weakside rebounding position.

    Fairly simple in my mind, but still got issues getting it across. Somehow it won't stick because in their mind they still believe cutting is not the right thing when the ball is in the post.
  15. plavitch Active Member

    We have run R&R for seven or eight years and that has always been the most difficult thing to teach for us. Maybe it is a psychological thing like you suggest.
  16. CoachDC New Member

    I probably went at this wrong, but here goes ... instead of directly teaching a laker cut, I first taught the X-cut. The idea being that while the X-cut was developing, the post player would "go to work" on his man. The idea of a slip screen here didn't take, but even when they forget to set the screen the end up laker cutting high.
  17. ST1 Member

    Coach Dennis

    Tx for that. will incorporate that. Its a easy enuff adjustment and the post will think we are catering our offense for him...

    Next up. How do i get my Players to get the motion going before the PG makes the first pass? We have done the drills, our first 2 up the court split the lanes, the back picks dont arrive as there is already a scoring opportunity presenting itself/or someone is forcing it...

    If we have to wait for the PG to make the first back pick the possession is already over.....
  18. plavitch Active Member

    Bob Huggins has a book on 5-out motion that devotes a chapter to getting the offense started. A lot of it would work with a R&R team, if I remember correctly.

    Maybe it's the kind of defenses we face but our teams have never had an issue with getting the offense started. We have never had to do anything special.
  19. ST1 Member

    i cant say we have had a problem starting our offense, its just NOW im demanding that we have picks already set before the PG makes his first pass. The Answer to my above question is simple " Guys must get up the court quicker, offense must be more patient" having the answer and getting the players to do the right thing is to totally different things. i suppose its just Habit or lack there off...
  20. plavitch Active Member

    This will sound like either a dumb or naïve question, but what advantage do you gain from that?

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